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Author Topic: LaGG-3 Cockpit Colour  (Read 14297 times)
John Thompson
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« on: March 16, 2010, 06:50:44 PM »

Does anyone have an opinion on the colour of the cockpit of the LaGG-3? I'm waiting for the new Authentic decals to arrive, and I'd like to start building a Roden 1/72 LaGG. In page 5 of the following thread, two modellers are working on this aircraft in 1/48 scale. One has apparently used dark grey (A-14), the other has used aluminum lacquer ("silverfish" according to Google's translation (when it works) and "rods of high carbon and alloy" according to Babel Fish!  Cheesy ). Scroll about halfway down the page:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20346&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=80

Here's a photo, supposedly of a LaGG-3 cockpit, which I saved from a thread on Scalemodels.ru, which looks very "silvery":



Note that the cockpit sidewall looks almost exactly the same as the first aid box, which appears to be an unpainted metal (aluminum?) stamping.

My guess would be aluminum lacquer for an early LaGG-3, and possibly A-14 for a later one (series 35? series 66?), although the photos in the following "walkaround" seem to show aluminum lacquer even in the La-5:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/501-600/walk544_La-5_Abbott/walk544.htm

Thanks!

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 04:47:12 AM »

Hi John,
this is likely. Only the instrument panel and metal parts looks painted with colors different than silver. I guess they are grey.
The topic on the russian site is really great, I could have to add a more detailed technical description of LaGG-3 because some new images have emerged there.
Massimo
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marluc
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 12:31:47 PM »

Yes John,it looks like aluminium laquer.The metal parts as seat and back armour could be grey A-14.Greetings.

Martin
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John Thompson
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 06:02:43 PM »

Thanks, Massimo and Martin! But for the instrument panel:





...it appears very light in colour. Could AEh-9 be a possibility? This colour was used on some aircraft such as the I-16 for a period of time during that type's production. It doesn't look reflective like aluminum lacquer, but it's almost as light in tone. Thanks again!

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 01:41:50 AM »

Quote
...it appears very light in colour. Could AEh-9 be a possibility? This colour was used on some aircraft such as the I-16 for a period of time during that type's production. It doesn't look reflective like aluminum lacquer, but it's almost as light in tone. Thanks again!

John

Hi John,
it looks likely. The instrument panel of I-153 of Bourget looks of the same color, and it is light grey, nearly white, by sure. The same photo of LaGG cockpit is described as A-14 by Orlov, if I remember well, but this doesn't look right to me.
Massimo
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 11:42:11 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Markino
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2010, 03:52:53 PM »

Hi John,
maybe this could be interesting for you:
"Silver as interior color
Silver was used also as interior finish over areas of wooden structure.  This is the case for both the MiG-3 (outer wings) and the LaGG-3 (fuselage) at Vesivehmaa museum.

Interior colors I know of (other than the VVSpage gives us): One of the SB elevators at Vesivehmaa museum has damage hole so that the interiors of it can be examined. While the whole elevator is painted externally with silver inside it has been painted with color much like RLM02. This color is as pristine as one can be. There is no perfect FS match, 26307 is close in hue, but too light. This paint most probably is not the same "Medium Blue-Green/ Blue-Green Primer/Metal Use Primer" the VVSpage wants us to use, the color is nowhere near the *light blue* FS(2)5622. I would like to know what is the VVSpage's sample if there is one?

The wooden LaGG-3 fuselage part at Vesivehmaa museum uses black (primer?) under the silver paint on interior surfaces! Outside plywood is covered with fabric. Under the fabric surface is of yellow(ish) color which might be primer or fabric dope.

Pete Chalmers has mentioned already in this thread the MiG-3 cockpit side panel which interior was painted blue-green FS 25352. I have not seen this panel, but I known the person who has done the comparison. I trust him 100% in this.

The MiG-3 at Vesivehmaa museum uses green FS34130 also for interiors (more below)."


I found this text on: http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/reference/russian.htm

I hope this is useful for your pourposes.

Best regards.

Marco
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marluc
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2010, 04:45:13 PM »

Itīs very useful,at least to me.Thanks for sharing it Marco,greetings.

Martin
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John Thompson
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 05:41:51 PM »

Thank you, Marco - this is helpful!  Smiley

John
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Markino
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2010, 06:11:46 PM »

Hi guys,
I am glad this is useful for you. The John's discussion about LaGG-3 cockpit colours is helpful for me too  Wink. Next time I post new results about LaGG-3 drawings.

Regards.

Marco
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2010, 06:06:25 AM »

Hi John,
maybe this could be interesting for you:
"Silver as interior color
Silver was used also as interior finish over areas of wooden structure.  This is the case for both the MiG-3 (outer wings) and the LaGG-3 (fuselage) at Vesivehmaa museum.

Interior colors I know of (other than the VVSpage gives us): One of the SB elevators at Vesivehmaa museum has damage hole so that the interiors of it can be examined. While the whole elevator is painted externally with silver inside it has been painted with color much like RLM02. This color is as pristine as one can be. There is no perfect FS match, 26307 is close in hue, but too light. This paint most probably is not the same "Medium Blue-Green/ Blue-Green Primer/Metal Use Primer" the VVSpage wants us to use, the color is nowhere near the *light blue* FS(2)5622. I would like to know what is the VVSpage's sample if there is one?

The wooden LaGG-3 fuselage part at Vesivehmaa museum uses black (primer?) under the silver paint on interior surfaces! Outside plywood is covered with fabric. Under the fabric surface is of yellow(ish) color which might be primer or fabric dope.

Pete Chalmers has mentioned already in this thread the MiG-3 cockpit side panel which interior was painted blue-green FS 25352. I have not seen this panel, but I known the person who has done the comparison. I trust him 100% in this.

The MiG-3 at Vesivehmaa museum uses green FS34130 also for interiors (more below)."


I found this text on: http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/reference/russian.htm

I hope this is useful for your pourposes.

Best regards.

Marco

Hi Marco,
thank you for the citation. I had already read this text many years ago, but it worts to read it again.  Here I see confirmed, for example, the deductiobs on silver/grey undersurface of I-15bis, and from here I know that some parts with green and light grey colors have survived too... this could give an answer to the question of the dark shade of green of that type. It speaks of an I-16 with silver undersurface too.
Besides there is the citation of light blue A-14 for the undersurface of MiG-3... who knows if this oil color was utilized over the wooden parts too, or if it was simply undistinguishable from AII? If it was similar to the undersurface of LaGG, this could be an explanation. Interesting is that there is not mention of difference of shade of blue and green between wooden and metallic parts.
Massimo


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Markino
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2010, 10:38:03 AM »

Hi John,
I post some images of cockpit. I hope them will be usefuls for you. I really think that internal cockpit colour was aluminium dope, as well show in the fuel filter area (last image).









Regards.

Marco
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John Thompson
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2010, 12:48:41 PM »

Thanks for the images, Marco! The latest update on the Scalemodels.ru "MiniGroupbuild" thread from "flomaster" shows images of his cockpit details more clearly; he's used aluminum (I think somewhere he said Alclad White Aluminum was the paint he used), although it has a somewhat dull appearance; perhaps he decided to dull-coat it to make it less shiney:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVL3onS

Can anyone provide a translation of the text in the instrument panel drawing below? I've been messing with Babel Fish for about an hour  Sad and I think the one on the left is early, and the one on the right is late, but the text inside the brackets on the left-hand one is throwing me - does it mean "including series 6" or "before series 6"? Or have I got early and late backwards?:



Obviously the difference won't matter a lot in 1/72 scale, but it might be useful to know in the future, regarding the paint colour (the instrument panel in Marco's photo is the type on the right of the drawing).

Thank you!

John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2010, 01:00:23 PM »


Can anyone provide a translation of the text in the instrument panel drawing below? I've been messing with Babel Fish for about an hour  Sad and I think the one on the left is early, and the one on the right is late, but the text inside the brackets on the left-hand one is throwing me - does it mean "including series 6" or "before series 6"? Or have I got early and late backwards?:




Never mind - I finally got it after one last try: The text in brackets apparently means "not after the 6th (series)"   Embarrassed

So it seems that the drawing on the left shows the panel for aircraft up to and including series 6; the right-hand drawing is for LaGG-3's after series 6!

(I am going to sign up for that Russian-language evening course... Wink )
 
John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2010, 02:42:25 PM »

Some parts I'm working on for the 1/72 LaGG-3 cockpit, using images of the Vector 1/48 resin set as a guide:



Yes, they look a bit (a lot?) scruffy, but they're not finished yet! The seat is from an ICM I-15, modified slightly. Depending on how it looks when it's finished, I might or might not put a cushion on the back. Here's a photo of a real LaGG-3 seat; apparently the padding could also have the more usual vertical seams instead of the upholstery style shown in the photo:

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx5at00

John
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Markino
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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2010, 03:21:02 PM »

Quote
Thanks for the images, Marco! The latest update on the Scalemodels.ru "MiniGroupbuild" thread from "flomaster" shows images of his cockpit details more clearly; he's used aluminum (I think somewhere he said Alclad White Aluminum was the paint he used), although it has a somewhat dull appearance; perhaps he decided to dull-coat it to make it less shiney:

I think it's a good choice. Me too will use Alclad when I will build the cockpit.

Quote
Can anyone provide a translation of the text in the instrument panel drawing below? I've been messing with Babel Fish for about an hour   and I think the one on the left is early, and the one on the right is late, but the text inside the brackets on the left-hand one is throwing me - does it mean "including series 6" or "before series 6"? Or have I got early and late backwards?:

My fiancče Aksana says me this translation:
Left panel: early instruments panel (not over 6th series)
Right panel: instruments panel following series.

I hope this is useful for you.

Regards.

Marco
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